22012011Tango Summary

Yes I know this was pretty premature, but the call is almost over, and the point was gotten across from this training. It was supposed to build interdepartmental ability

We will pay attention to the TA units next time. I'll make sure of it. Also, we'll be doing another one right?

ALL I noticed:

1. Placing an unstaffed unit in service, with a person from a different department, and we didn't really require the second ALS.

2. Radio Communication. As you can see there was a there was an instance where Raven was asking me about victims, but I didn't know it because he never indicated who he was talking too. So I think at scenes like this we should indicate who we're talking to. We should come up with names for radio freqs we have

Example:
If I'm talking to EMS, It's implied that I'm talking on EMS channel. But if I'm talking to fire I'll say, "BLS-1 to interior on fireground ops." or for police "BLS-1 to pd on TAC1/police dispatch". And vice-versa.

The different channels would be more confusing, as you wouldn't hear what's going on. What we use is just COPA-BLS1 or whatever to clarify who it's directed at

Alright, well I think there needs to be more of that, or more strictly enforced to keep from the confusion that Raven and I had.

I know that I'm not a TO so I hope I'm not out of place in posting on this, but I have a few comments on this report.

On the read the EAT, all that I saw was the inital post up to BLS 1 going enroute. Therefore I personally did not see that we were to treat the cadets as medics. With regards to the cadets. All that I know about cadets, esspecially EMS cadets from going through EMT and Medic school, is that they must be watched by a medic or emt (depending on the level of cadet) in order to do any of their skills.

Not knowing that the Cadets could operate on their own and not seeing that they had trucks available (something that should be put in the first post) I as many others did, would have assumed their trucks unfit for transport. I know from experiance that TA or school units are marked, at least in my area as "TRAINING VEHICLE NOT FOR EMERGNECY USE" (Caps are to quote word for word, not yelling.) With that. why would you use training vehicles if you wouldn't use them on the street.

Also originally when we requested to use the extra rig the request was repeated at least twice that I can remember before Kaizer made the decision to ok it's use. Jansen requested to bring the FD's RA, which was unknown if it was even done, so that we weren't using EMS' equpiment.

With regards to pulling men from FD to assist in the EMS end, The TA units were as I have already mentioned, completely off the air, as far as I can tell, and Jansen was coming any way so, with not knowing about the TA units I personally feel that it was a good call to pull the ALS 2 in. The 2 persons (Tim and Jansen) originally driving also were not needed by FD, and could not have done much, since rescue was needed and neither had SAR. The thrid (Jess) had SAR but was driving durring the clean up.

Also only 4 patient that I read were made red. For the reason that any mass casualty esepcially a fire mass causualty is going to have red, yellow green and black. No one made a patient go from say nothing to a heart attack. The closest to that is the patient that I had that said they could not remember what was happening and was having chest pain.

One more thing I just thought of seeing McGuire's post, there should not be a problem with fire driving the mbo or vice versa. I know from experiance that on call that require both medics in the back, or only one medic is on the truck, I've pulled fire figthers from their truck and had them drive ours. Even when we were a different governing body, like a columbus firefighter driving Minerva Park's medic because all three personel for the park were in the back working on a trauma patient.

I would also suggest getting RA-1(11 what ever number you chose) inservice, for now as a cross staffed unit, like the fire medic off of a truck and a fire EMT off another would run it if it might be needed. (Like the ladders run with the man trapped on the Tower, we could have put myself and an EMT on the RA and brought it with the Ladder and been able to transport, and on this run, we would have had a second ALS rig availible (again forgeting about the TA rigs. Since those were completely missed.)

Thats all I had, I apoligize if this was only for TO's but these were things that I felt needed to be said.

Last edited by C. Hutchison on Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

So how'd fire do?

C. Hutchison wrote:I know that I'm not a TO so I hope I'm not out of place in posting on this, but I have a few comments on this report.

On the read the EAT, all that I saw was the inital post up to BLS 1 going enroute. Therefore I personally did not see that we were to treat the cadets as medics. With regards to the cadets. All that I know about cadets, esspecially EMS cadets from going through EMT and Medic school, is that they must be watched by a medic or emt (depending on the level of cadet) in order to do any of their skills.
All posts in EAT should always be read, not just the first...

Not knowing that the Cadets could operate on their own and not seeing that they had trucks available (something that should be put in the first post) I as many others did, would have assumed their trucks unfit for transport. I know from experiance that TA or school units are marked, at least in my area as "TRAINING VEHICLE NOT FOR EMERGNECY USE" (Caps are to quote word for word, not yelling.) With that. why would you use training vehicles if you wouldn't use them on the street.
Since these were not real victims, this was okay to use fake vehicles. If it was a real call, the obviously fake vehicles would not be okay, but this was stated as a training call many times.

Also originally when we requested to use the extra rig the request was repeated at least twice that I can remember before Kaizer made the decision to ok it's use. Jansen requested to bring the FD's RA, which was unknown if it was even done, so that we weren't using EMS' equpiment.
Honestly, I did not see it and therefore did not respond. I just checked over and saw it but did not see during call. Never though should a unit be taken from my office. Ever, no matter who gives on scene orders, they may not. If I don't reply to a post, and it's urgent, PM it. Don't just assume and take it.

With regards to pulling men from FD to assist in the EMS end, The TA units were as I have already mentioned, completely off the air, as far as I can tell, and Jansen was coming any way so, with not knowing about the TA units I personally feel that it was a good call to pull the ALS 2 in. The 2 persons (Tim and Jansen) originally driving also were not needed by FD, and could not have done much, since rescue was needed and neither had SAR. The thrid (Jess) had SAR but was driving durring the clean up.
Squad one all have basic SAR and Squad 1 is a primary search and rescue unit. Regardless, the training academy guys were not players, they were fictional players you'd just assume. This was to simulate working with PEMS and PFD on a real call, so that we won't have 18 pages of treatment that wasn't neccessary and could've been assumed by non player characters.

Also only 4 patient that I read were made red. For the reason that any mass casualty esepcially a fire mass causualty is going to have red, yellow green and black. No one made a patient go from say nothing to a heart attack. The closest to that is the patient that I had that said they could not remember what was happening and was having chest pain.
I was commenting that in regards to something brought up during the call. Just a note, not directed at you guys directly

One more thing I just thought of seeing McGuire's post, there should not be a problem with fire driving the mbo or vice versa. I know from experiance that on call that require both medics in the back, or only one medic is on the truck, I've pulled fire figthers from their truck and had them drive ours. Even when we were a different governing body, like a columbus firefighter driving Minerva Park's medic because all three personel for the park were in the back working on a trauma patient.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I know it does, but I don't want you guys taking over a EMS unit completely. Firefighters can come on and assist with it, but they won't come on and be the only people on it.

I would also suggest getting RA-1(11 what ever number you chose) inservice, for now as a cross staffed unit, like the fire medic off of a truck and a fire EMT off another would run it if it might be needed. (Like the ladders run with the man trapped on the Tower, we could have put myself and an EMT on the RA and brought it with the Ladder and been able to transport, and on this run, we would have had a second ALS rig availible (again forgeting about the TA rigs. Since those were completely missed.)
I've got bigger concerns than adding extra units, such as staffing the ones we have now. RA-1 is next on the docket for fire, but I want firefighters on Pumper 11 first, then the RA will come into service

Thats all I had, I apoligize if this was only for TO's but these were things that I felt needed to be said.

My comments are in red, it was easier to do it that way. The main point is EAT is there to read. In real life, it would be updating regularly, so every time you check new posts and EAT has one, read it, even if it's just stupid BLS-1 responding, it could be useful, becuase sometimes there will be tidbits in there that are very important. I didn't watch the call as closely as I should've and therefore it kinda spiralled. For future reference at training academy scenes, everything is assumed to be fully functioning, and working if it's provided, and injuries are not real unless said.
You were defending your actions which is fine, TO's were asked to add in thoughts about criticisms they had on you guys for whatever, as they review as well as I do.

Like I said, I think fire was okay, TO's will comment on that though

Also, if that was interpretted as coming from a steel hearted bitch, was not meant that way, just figured I'd be blunt and to the point, without flowers.. Since it's winter and all
I've got a plan to rework fire to make it work better with what we've got.

Haha, I've noticed a problem with who got what floors. So, since we got ladders, trucks take the upper floors while everyone else takes the lower ones. Cool? cool. That'll be the same with every fire unless I or another superior officer sees fit to change it. Also, with the vic count, everyone remember to use the official topic because that's what many got tangled with earlier K? Alrighty . That's all from me.

You'd count victims on the bottom of your post.. In the scnee. that's the official topic you're talking about right?

As for floor assignments, Ladder takes upper, squad takes lower and pumper does fire suppression. That's the LFA task force. When there's not a Squad present,then Ladder does SAR

Ok, I meant the summary or something in the fire station topic I think but the bottom of the post is good too haha.

The only thing other than the pm I sent you, DC, that I would say, is immportant tidbits, Like treating Cadets as medics and that they have 2 Ambos and a chase car (or whatever terminology you used.) needs to be put in the first post after mentioning. Atleast on our department's MDT(Mobil Data Terminal) we get the run card and then section that gets updated through out the call is displayed on the card, so you have to continue to refresh the card to see the info, but I expected something like that being the first post.

So my suggestion would be
Run Card

=Comments=
Treat Cadets as Medics, and they are responding with 2 Ambos, and a Chase Car

This way the format is kept, but the new section is for anything immportant that comes up durring the run or response. Such as:
ERT:EMS is tied up and if EMS is need you'll have to request PEMS.
FD and EMS on stand by on your drunk driver.
FD and PD on scene with 5 patients conditions and vitals below.

This would give units more info when dispatched.

So I did miss the part about using the TA EMS Cadets that way, and I am very sorry for that, should have read the whole EAT thread. (Though if was going be a ass about it, I would only know what the first post in the EAT said, since I don't carry a radio around at the hospital, but we're not going there.)

And to be frank, I hate turning patients over to the wonderful world of NPCs It takes away from my aspect of this game. I love reading McGuire's triage, treatment and FF rehab posts, I love reading Zack and Hutchisons treatment posts.
Hell, when Hutchison threw me a hemophiliac diabetic with with a priapism (which is a term well worth a Google if you're not familiar with it xD ), it was the most fun I've had on here. But that's more a general comment.

So in stead of going on for ages here, I'll post a neat list of suggestions.

- I support Hutchisons proposal above.

- To avoid those OOC blurbs like we had at the end there, why not make a OOC thread for every call thread? That way we can keep the actual RP nice and clean.

- Clarification on the use of spare units, and those guidelines posted a place everyone can see it.

- EMS Supervisor present at MCIs. There is a definite need for someone not involved in treatment, triage or transport to have an overview. In the hospital trauma teams for example, the team leader rarely if ever gets "hands on" with the patient, he/she just supervises.

- If EMS Super is not present, who has command? What authority does that person have to get more units?

Unless the supervisor is there I generally take over command since I'm usually first on scene anyway and since I've been at ERT longer.

Authority-wise for more units, I think even the supervisor probably has to get the "Signal K" (OK) from COPA.

I, and I think most people did to, thought that once one scene, no matter lenght of time with ERT or Rank in ERT, as soon as Kaizer is there he is the Command for all things EMS being that he is the highest trained, and the only "player" that could be our Medical Director, since you must be an MD for that position, and he is the only player MD.

So a clear chain of command for EMS should be defined because in real life when I have been training as an EMS super, if the Medical Director is on scene he is in charge of the scene for EMS. He is basically the chief because with out his license you can't do any thing over a first aider. And a BLS truck est. EMS command is fine early on, but once ALS is on scene, and before Supervisor, or Kazier is there, BLS needs to transfer command to the higher level of care/rank. If I'm right at how the structure here is set up, the chain should be some thing like, EMT<Medic<Super<Junior MD<Senior MD.

Again I'm not a TO but that is something that I saw that should be looked at.

Yes, but remember that transport-wise and as you saw at this call, the medics and Kiazer were constantly tied up, and they can't be command if they're in the back of an ambulance going somewhere. So I think it should just be the senior-most with how long they've been at ERT.

I'm not saying this because I'd be sad or whatever that I can't be command, but I've been here the longest and I would be remaining on scene for the majority of the time. If I leave, then I'll temporarily pass it on to somebody on EMS who will remain on scene until I return

And just a correction for your chain of command. The EMS Supervisor is the supervisor for all of EMS, so he is higher up than Kaizer, on scene and transporting.

See this is where I tend to disagree. Within the hierarchy of EMS, The Medical Director is the person who pretty much controls what the service can and can't do, and who is allow to work for the service. The Medical Director is the MD in charge of the service and who responds to calls when an MD is need. He is the person who writes your protocols and whose license you operate under, it pretty much cheif of EMS. While most services have a director and a Medical Director, if the medical director, says, you can't practice under my license any more to a director, that director is out of a job.

So I would say the if an MD is on scene the MD is high than a super, but DC can of course correct me if I'm wrong.

And this is also my point. I don't know how many people on here are actually FF/EMT/LEOs in real life, but by drawing on real life experiances, I know that I roll on a call today doing my training for my super. position, and I roll with the Medical Director, or his designated MD/PA to a call, it doesn't matter if I'm the director of the service he's the EMS IC.

Command will be answered with this. If Riles is not present for whatever reason, then command will be split. Transport will be handled by the most senior officer not tending to treatment, and medical treatment will be handled by most trained. That way we don't have to interrupt a medical treatment to transport someone.

So say all you guys were back there, EMS command should've been split as Riles was absent, and Kaizer would've taken over treatment and Mcguire would've taken over transport command as he seemed to be doing the least (no offense) and Ridgeback I think was doing a lot of treatment as well. To be safe though, I announce a command for each area if Riles isn't present again

Good that we got that clarified. I assume McGuire has triage command as well then? He's Triage & Transport Officer, and I'm Treatment?

Yes. That's the usual command line. However when Riles is there, he is god, you're just mere peasents,